On Sep 8, 2008, at 1:13 PM, Bernhard Rosenkraenzer wrote:
> On Monday 08 September 2008 00:01:27 Jeff Johnson wrote:
>> Yes I hear how hard spec files are to write on a daily basis.
> Ok, let me tell you the opposite then. ;)
> The main reason why we picked rpm over dpkg or the likes when we
> started Ark Linux was that spec files are so much easier to write (and
> especially to learn) than Makefiles, dpkg control files, and the
> The good thing about spec files the way they are is that pretty much
> anyone who knoes how to compile an application in a shell prompt
> (which is still almost any linux user) can write a spec file.
> We have a few "package monkeys" who don't know anything about
> programming and who know only the basics of shell scripting, but
> they can build rpm packages just fine.
> I can see why a more experienced developer may prefer writing a
> Makefile or the likes (which is probably where you get the complaints
> from developers coming from other OSes -- the average Windoze
> user thinks it is confusing that a shell prompt doesn't start with C:
> but loves writing MSVC project files that make no sense at all to
> people using a real OS) - but let's keep the package monkey
> interface around too...
Please note that I'm suggesting an alternative, not a replacement, to
Interfacing a build factory to rpm packages and spec files is a whole
problem space than what "package monkeys" (like me) have been doing
The means by which modern build factories are attempting to generate
packages for distribution show how *.spec files aren't the most useful
Here are some examples from what I consider "modern build factories"
OpenSUSE is providing useful extensions in spec file comments.
PLD is adding build element digests in spec file comments.
Note comments. And the flaw is in RPM spec files, not with either of
the above efforts.
There is also increasing need to build from "exploded source trees" as
by Doug Ledford, and also consistent with what I'm seeing with a
*BSD "make world" build system. The means by which information is being
extracted from spec files, and how spec files are used as a templating
for build factories are what needs to change.
So I'm suggesting alternative representations, in this case by
converting the *.spec
build scriptlets to make(1) rules, eliminating macros and other
I'm mostly certainly not suggesting replacing the existing spec files.
73 de Jeff
Received on Mon Sep 8 20:20:13 2008